Interview With the New 2022-2023 International Section Council Members
By Joshua Bank, Nina Han, and Jonathan Bondy
International News, May 2023
In this brief interview, new council members Jonathan Bondy, FSA MAAA, Nina Han, FSA CERA MAAA, and Josh Bank, ASA, talk about what led them to international actuarial work and how it shaped their careers. We hope that these conversations add to your acknowledged interest in current and future international actuarial work opportunities.
International News: When and why did you first become interested in international actuarial issues or practice?
Jonathan: My first international actuarial experience was somewhat unexpected. I was working for an internal consulting team in my international organization based out of Toronto, and was asked to take on a short-term assignment in Singapore. I hadn’t previously considered pursuing international roles and was intrigued by the opportunity. It was a challenging but rewarding experience, and became the start of my journey in Asia which has now additionally spanned Cambodia, Hong Kong, and the Philippines.
Nina: I got interested in international actuarial issues and practice first due to the fact that I have spent 50% of my life in each of two different countries. After spending the second half in New York City, I have gained more appreciation of how much people can simply learn from talking to people from different cultures. Same as for the insurance world. Working at Swiss Re allowed me to be exposed to so many different things that are happening around the globe. With that excitement, I joined Oliver Wyman (a Marsh McLennan group, along with Mercer and other specialty firms) and participated in the expansion of the practice to different regions of the world and had the opportunity to work on global actuarial and insurance issues and practice first hand.
Josh: During my second year at Deloitte, my supervisor called me into his office and said he'd heard that I spoke Spanish. I confirmed it and was quickly booked to assist an audit team with due diligence around the privatization of CANTV, Venezuela's State-Owned telecoms company. That project hooked me for life.
International News: Is there anyone in particular who got you interested or supported you as you ventured into the international area?
Jonathan: Taking on an international role requires the support of mentors, but also of family and friends. There are many opportunities out there, but balancing those against being away from loved ones is one of the biggest challenges. The understanding and encouragement from the people closest to me is something I am eternally grateful for.
Nina: Rob Winawer from the Oliver Wyman practice had taught us everything about Bermuda, and Seong-Weon Park and Dean Kerr from our practice started the Asia practice initiative which allowed us to have an opportunity to explore and experience the insurance world on the other side of the earth.
Josh: After the Venezuela job, word must have gotten around because I started getting voicemails (this was before email got big) from colleagues I didn't know in both North and South America. Perhaps the call that enthralled me the most was from the partner in charge of our Montevideo (Uruguay) office. It was a pre-privatization of the state owned insurance company—not even in my specialty line! I signed on, of course, and from then on I started offloading my domestic pensions clients to my more than able Chicago team and focused solely on Central and South America opportunities.
International News: What were your earliest international actuarial activities? What were some high and low points?
Jonathan: During my assignment in Singapore, one of my key tasks was to drive the product pricing and development for an international indexed universal life product, the first of its kind in the market. Learning about a new culture and insurance environment was an invigorating challenge. As high points, we were welcomed so warmly by colleagues and friends with whom I’m still in touch with today, and our team's achievement of the goal to launch the IUL product got a strong reception in the market. Coming from North America to Asia, the opportunity to travel to so many different countries that are just a few hours away by plane is a real eye-opener. The most difficult part is the time it takes to build a new life as well as being away from family and the environments that you've been comfortable in and accustomed to.
Nina: My earliest international actuarial activity was working with the Bermuda parent at my first job. It was the first time I learned about reinsurance—as an actuarial student with only one year of experience. At first I had a very limited idea what was going on, did not understand what Modified Coinsurance meant, nor did I even know exactly where Bermuda was. Ten years later, I finally travelled to Bermuda to attend an industry conference for the first time.
Josh: The real high points and low points actually came when I allowed myself to get pulled into a couple of big, year+ long government projects in Brazil and Thailand that I now admit (but didn't at the time) were over my head, not technically but professionally. Both jobs were at times exhilarating, at times terrifying (same thing, to me, in my middle years.) I survived those battles, although one of our partners on an unrelated project in Thailand was assassinated a couple of days after we had breakfast together. His whole Australian team was pulled out for several months, but I stuck it out and slightly softened my project approach until done.
International News: Why and how have your international interest and practices enriched your overall career?
Jonathan: International experience exposes you to different ways of working including different regulatory frameworks, product types, and staffing and operating models. This gives you a diverse perspective to draw upon and come up with creative, effective solutions when problem solving in future work. Being exposed to different cultures also gives you the opportunity for a lot of introspection and can improve your ability to connect with the people around you and to become more comfortable in unfamiliar situations.
Nina: International experience, similar to diversity, will allow people to open up their mind to think about our daily personal and professional life through different lenses. The different markets and obstacles each region faces pushes them—and us—to get creative in new and different ways. We are lucky to be in a very mature and well-regulated North American insurance market. However, looking at what others are doing still brings new ideas and approaches to our world.
Josh: My international (ad)ventures, which expanded into Europe, Asia and further down into South America, revived my career after my thousandth U.S. pension valuation and Schedule B certification. Sales in the international arena started popping up with relative ease and I accumulated three million airline miles in the five years that straddled Y2K. Then 9/11 (and Sarbanes-Oxley) happened and the U.S. firm retrenched to a mostly domestic services portfolio, just about the time that fatigue and ineffective focus complemented my moderate late-midlife crisis. I spent a few more years doing international benefits at two of the big legacy firms and then retired from full-time work. I've often told myself—and a few others—that my stumble into international work midway through my career allowed me to end up with the best, most stimulating job in the world.
International News: What advice would you give to North American actuaries who may be considering exploring opportunities in the international arena?
Jonathan: Both personally and professionally, getting exposure to different parts of the world can be very fulfilling. Uncertainty can be scary, but as actuaries we know that risk is opportunity. If you think you might be interested, reach out to a mentor and start the conversation. Good luck!
Nina: Stay open minded, go out there and learn. Make sure you track your time differences between your regions and get ready to adapt to a new world and work with people in different time zones. Actuaries around the world are both similar and different. The similarities allow us to bond very well and the differences inspire us to have fun and continue learning and contributing something new every day.
Josh: Firstly, spend some time opening your eyes, ears and mind further to the big world that's out there. Also, if you're approached or hear noise about something with an international flavor that's within—or even slightly outside—your specialty areas, dive in, grab a hold, and hang on for a fascinating and rewarding career. The water's a bit cold at first but warms up quickly. Good luck, and Vaya Con Dios!!
Statements of fact and opinions expressed herein are those of the individual authors and are not necessarily those of the Society of Actuaries, the editors, or the respective authors’ employers.